1 00:00:02,910 --> 00:00:08,950 [Music] 2 00:00:14,629 --> 00:00:12,310 hello and welcome to episode number 38 3 00:00:15,829 --> 00:00:14,639 of the point of convergence podcast 4 00:00:19,429 --> 00:00:15,839 as always 5 00:00:21,830 --> 00:00:19,439 i am your host exo academian 6 00:00:23,830 --> 00:00:21,840 the ufo phenomenon is a topic that has 7 00:00:25,750 --> 00:00:23,840 undoubtedly seen a rise in interest 8 00:00:26,870 --> 00:00:25,760 amongst the general public in recent 9 00:00:28,710 --> 00:00:26,880 years 10 00:00:31,269 --> 00:00:28,720 this of course has much to do with 11 00:00:32,549 --> 00:00:31,279 startling videos of officially declared 12 00:00:34,870 --> 00:00:32,559 uap 13 00:00:36,950 --> 00:00:34,880 that is unidentified aerial phenomena 14 00:00:39,590 --> 00:00:36,960 that were discussed in some detail in a 15 00:00:42,150 --> 00:00:39,600 groundbreaking new york times article in 16 00:00:44,150 --> 00:00:42,160 2017 17 00:00:46,470 --> 00:00:44,160 more recently discussions have only 18 00:00:49,430 --> 00:00:46,480 increased following a classified report 19 00:00:51,510 --> 00:00:49,440 delivered to congress in 2021 20 00:00:53,750 --> 00:00:51,520 by an officially sanctioned department 21 00:00:55,750 --> 00:00:53,760 of defense task force 22 00:00:57,910 --> 00:00:55,760 indeed this momentum really has helped 23 00:01:00,630 --> 00:00:57,920 to make this topic if not exactly 24 00:01:02,389 --> 00:01:00,640 headline news around the world 25 00:01:04,950 --> 00:01:02,399 at least a subject that no longer 26 00:01:07,109 --> 00:01:04,960 garners outright ridicule and derision 27 00:01:09,590 --> 00:01:07,119 in the mainstream 28 00:01:11,510 --> 00:01:09,600 still that said what is perhaps an even 29 00:01:13,830 --> 00:01:11,520 more intriguing startling and 30 00:01:16,469 --> 00:01:13,840 consequential aspect of the ufo 31 00:01:18,310 --> 00:01:16,479 phenomenon still tends to fly under the 32 00:01:19,830 --> 00:01:18,320 radar when it comes to mainstream 33 00:01:21,670 --> 00:01:19,840 coverage 34 00:01:23,990 --> 00:01:21,680 here i speak of contact with the 35 00:01:27,030 --> 00:01:24,000 apparently non-human intelligences 36 00:01:29,109 --> 00:01:27,040 piloting these craft as those of us 37 00:01:30,950 --> 00:01:29,119 intimately familiar with this enigmatic 38 00:01:33,510 --> 00:01:30,960 topic know all too well 39 00:01:36,069 --> 00:01:33,520 this aspect is central to our quest to 40 00:01:39,670 --> 00:01:36,079 understand the ultimate origin and 41 00:01:41,749 --> 00:01:39,680 intentions of these others 42 00:01:43,510 --> 00:01:41,759 contrary to what many cynics and 43 00:01:45,270 --> 00:01:43,520 naysayers might claim 44 00:01:47,990 --> 00:01:45,280 those who do experience this kind of 45 00:01:50,069 --> 00:01:48,000 contact with alien entities are not 46 00:01:52,230 --> 00:01:50,079 necessarily conspiracy theorists 47 00:01:54,550 --> 00:01:52,240 obsessed with this topic 48 00:01:56,630 --> 00:01:54,560 in fact many who have experienced this 49 00:01:59,910 --> 00:01:56,640 kind of sudden and initially unwanted 50 00:02:02,310 --> 00:01:59,920 contact known as abduction had no 51 00:02:03,830 --> 00:02:02,320 interest nor familiarity with this topic 52 00:02:06,230 --> 00:02:03,840 beforehand 53 00:02:08,949 --> 00:02:06,240 from their point of view it was an event 54 00:02:11,110 --> 00:02:08,959 or more commonly a series of events that 55 00:02:13,990 --> 00:02:11,120 seem to be suddenly thrust upon them 56 00:02:16,790 --> 00:02:14,000 from out of nowhere 57 00:02:18,630 --> 00:02:16,800 one such individual is jim sparks 58 00:02:21,589 --> 00:02:18,640 with a background as a run-of-the-mill 59 00:02:23,510 --> 00:02:21,599 real estate developer from south florida 60 00:02:25,910 --> 00:02:23,520 only really concerned with fulfilling 61 00:02:27,910 --> 00:02:25,920 his vision of the american dream 62 00:02:29,990 --> 00:02:27,920 the last thing on his radar was 63 00:02:32,630 --> 00:02:30,000 otherworldly visitors and trips to their 64 00:02:35,190 --> 00:02:32,640 apparently sophisticated spacecraft 65 00:02:36,710 --> 00:02:35,200 and yes at some point in his adult life 66 00:02:38,470 --> 00:02:36,720 this is precisely what he started 67 00:02:40,869 --> 00:02:38,480 experiencing 68 00:02:42,710 --> 00:02:40,879 and these events were far from rare at 69 00:02:46,550 --> 00:02:42,720 the height of his experiences he was 70 00:02:48,790 --> 00:02:46,560 being abducted multiple times a month 71 00:02:51,589 --> 00:02:48,800 unlike some contact slash abduction 72 00:02:54,070 --> 00:02:51,599 experiences that offer up only foggy 73 00:02:56,869 --> 00:02:54,080 jumbled memories of alien figures and 74 00:02:59,430 --> 00:02:56,879 supposed off-world technology 75 00:03:01,750 --> 00:02:59,440 sparks experienced full-on education 76 00:03:04,149 --> 00:03:01,760 sessions where these others sought to 77 00:03:06,550 --> 00:03:04,159 teach them their own language and 78 00:03:07,589 --> 00:03:06,560 fostered his capacities along the side 79 00:03:09,750 --> 00:03:07,599 spectrum 80 00:03:12,309 --> 00:03:09,760 including abilities such as telepathy 81 00:03:14,550 --> 00:03:12,319 and psychokinesis 82 00:03:15,430 --> 00:03:14,560 what's even more striking about spark's 83 00:03:17,270 --> 00:03:15,440 case 84 00:03:19,270 --> 00:03:17,280 making it even more difficult for 85 00:03:21,110 --> 00:03:19,280 naysayers to dismiss 86 00:03:23,350 --> 00:03:21,120 is that all of these memories were 87 00:03:25,509 --> 00:03:23,360 recalled consciously 88 00:03:28,550 --> 00:03:25,519 that is without the need for what is 89 00:03:30,710 --> 00:03:28,560 commonly known as regression therapy 90 00:03:32,630 --> 00:03:30,720 in retelling events sparks makes it 91 00:03:34,869 --> 00:03:32,640 clear that from the onset of these 92 00:03:37,670 --> 00:03:34,879 experiences as frightening as they 93 00:03:39,910 --> 00:03:37,680 initially were he made a mental note to 94 00:03:41,030 --> 00:03:39,920 do his very best to remain conscious 95 00:03:43,350 --> 00:03:41,040 throughout 96 00:03:46,229 --> 00:03:43,360 and unlike many others who wished to do 97 00:03:47,830 --> 00:03:46,239 the same he was surprisingly successful 98 00:03:49,830 --> 00:03:47,840 in this endeavor 99 00:03:52,550 --> 00:03:49,840 ultimately remembering almost every 100 00:03:54,470 --> 00:03:52,560 aspect of the events 101 00:03:56,229 --> 00:03:54,480 what was the nature of these consciously 102 00:03:58,070 --> 00:03:56,239 recalled experiences 103 00:04:01,030 --> 00:03:58,080 and what did the communication between 104 00:04:03,509 --> 00:04:01,040 sparks and these apparent alien others 105 00:04:07,350 --> 00:04:03,519 reveal about their ultimate intentions 106 00:04:09,350 --> 00:04:07,360 not just for him but for all of humanity 107 00:04:11,589 --> 00:04:09,360 the answers that emerged according to 108 00:04:13,910 --> 00:04:11,599 sparks experience reveal a kind of 109 00:04:16,949 --> 00:04:13,920 symbiotic arrangement that some might 110 00:04:19,110 --> 00:04:16,959 find as disconcerting and disturbing as 111 00:04:20,629 --> 00:04:19,120 others may find encouraging and 112 00:04:22,390 --> 00:04:20,639 enlightening 113 00:04:26,310 --> 00:04:22,400 and these are the very matters we'll 114 00:04:31,350 --> 00:04:26,320 seek to explore in this the 38th episode 115 00:04:38,310 --> 00:04:35,590 [Music] 116 00:04:40,310 --> 00:04:38,320 as we begin this week's episode you'll 117 00:04:41,830 --> 00:04:40,320 probably note that we've discussed 118 00:04:44,230 --> 00:04:41,840 multiple 119 00:04:46,870 --> 00:04:44,240 slash contact experiences 120 00:04:48,629 --> 00:04:46,880 over the course of this podcast 121 00:04:50,629 --> 00:04:48,639 i think it's important to return to 122 00:04:53,110 --> 00:04:50,639 these rather than just always looking 123 00:04:55,430 --> 00:04:53,120 from the big picture because 124 00:04:57,830 --> 00:04:55,440 the events people experience the details 125 00:05:00,550 --> 00:04:57,840 of those events should inform our 126 00:05:02,710 --> 00:05:00,560 understanding of the entire phenomenon 127 00:05:05,110 --> 00:05:02,720 and i'd like to start now with what jim 128 00:05:07,830 --> 00:05:05,120 sparks begins to experience what kind of 129 00:05:09,350 --> 00:05:07,840 events he endures and how he is 130 00:05:11,670 --> 00:05:09,360 determined as i mentioned in the 131 00:05:13,909 --> 00:05:11,680 introduction to remain conscious 132 00:05:16,390 --> 00:05:13,919 throughout 133 00:05:19,189 --> 00:05:16,400 by the way as we begin here i would just 134 00:05:20,710 --> 00:05:19,199 recommend that you go ahead and buy this 135 00:05:23,110 --> 00:05:20,720 book that he's written i think it's a 136 00:05:24,629 --> 00:05:23,120 very compelling read i don't always say 137 00:05:27,270 --> 00:05:24,639 that but i really do think this one is 138 00:05:29,029 --> 00:05:27,280 good and has a lot of detail covers a 139 00:05:31,029 --> 00:05:29,039 lot of events that we can't get to in 140 00:05:33,909 --> 00:05:31,039 the course of this podcast 141 00:05:36,870 --> 00:05:33,919 jim sparks book is titled the keepers an 142 00:05:39,909 --> 00:05:36,880 alien message for the human race 143 00:05:42,469 --> 00:05:39,919 okay now let's get to his experience 144 00:05:44,629 --> 00:05:42,479 quoting from the book quote 145 00:05:46,469 --> 00:05:44,639 if i had a history of strangeness in my 146 00:05:48,950 --> 00:05:46,479 life i might have taken this all in 147 00:05:51,510 --> 00:05:48,960 stride but the truth was that i'd never 148 00:05:52,950 --> 00:05:51,520 had a paranormal experience before in my 149 00:05:54,790 --> 00:05:52,960 entire life 150 00:05:56,870 --> 00:05:54,800 surely this kind of thing just didn't 151 00:05:58,710 --> 00:05:56,880 happen to a businessman 152 00:06:00,870 --> 00:05:58,720 as i got out the vacuum cleaner from the 153 00:06:03,510 --> 00:06:00,880 laundry room and vacuumed the carpet 154 00:06:05,830 --> 00:06:03,520 making sure to remove every flower twig 155 00:06:07,430 --> 00:06:05,840 or blade of grass by the way as a quick 156 00:06:09,430 --> 00:06:07,440 aside that came from a previous 157 00:06:10,710 --> 00:06:09,440 abduction experience 158 00:06:12,870 --> 00:06:10,720 back to the quote 159 00:06:14,390 --> 00:06:12,880 i thought how relieved i was that teresa 160 00:06:16,870 --> 00:06:14,400 was out of the house 161 00:06:18,710 --> 00:06:16,880 i wouldn't tell her not yet i couldn't 162 00:06:20,870 --> 00:06:18,720 hide this from myself 163 00:06:22,070 --> 00:06:20,880 i was consumed with questions about what 164 00:06:24,710 --> 00:06:22,080 had happened 165 00:06:27,189 --> 00:06:24,720 i wanted to talk to teresa i was pretty 166 00:06:29,749 --> 00:06:27,199 rattled and i started flubbing up on my 167 00:06:31,590 --> 00:06:29,759 job but i also didn't want to scare my 168 00:06:34,550 --> 00:06:31,600 wife and i certainly didn't want to give 169 00:06:36,550 --> 00:06:34,560 her cause to think i was crazy 170 00:06:37,990 --> 00:06:36,560 no it was best to just wait and make 171 00:06:40,390 --> 00:06:38,000 sure myself 172 00:06:42,629 --> 00:06:40,400 i would wait for it to happen again 173 00:06:44,950 --> 00:06:42,639 also i decided that the next time i had 174 00:06:48,150 --> 00:06:44,960 one of these weird dreams i would make 175 00:06:50,469 --> 00:06:48,160 an effort to remember more detail 176 00:06:51,749 --> 00:06:50,479 about a week later the same dream came 177 00:06:54,790 --> 00:06:51,759 to me again 178 00:06:57,350 --> 00:06:54,800 and i sensed a presence at my bedside 179 00:06:58,950 --> 00:06:57,360 theresa lay beside me sleeping soundly 180 00:07:01,589 --> 00:06:58,960 and i can remember thinking in my 181 00:07:02,950 --> 00:07:01,599 semi-conscious state dream it's just a 182 00:07:05,749 --> 00:07:02,960 dream 183 00:07:07,830 --> 00:07:05,759 my resolution to remember kicked in 184 00:07:11,510 --> 00:07:07,840 i was going to try to see who was doing 185 00:07:13,990 --> 00:07:11,520 this focus i thought pay attention who 186 00:07:15,990 --> 00:07:14,000 or what was this presence 187 00:07:17,909 --> 00:07:16,000 in the dimness i was able to make out 188 00:07:19,350 --> 00:07:17,919 that these beings were shorter than the 189 00:07:21,749 --> 00:07:19,360 average human 190 00:07:23,830 --> 00:07:21,759 then the familiar dream unrolled 191 00:07:25,830 --> 00:07:23,840 being pulled from the bed walking down 192 00:07:28,870 --> 00:07:25,840 the hall the shock of passing through 193 00:07:30,629 --> 00:07:28,880 the window and wall into the lawn 194 00:07:32,150 --> 00:07:30,639 crossing the street and going into the 195 00:07:35,430 --> 00:07:32,160 woods beyond 196 00:07:37,430 --> 00:07:35,440 then the aroma of honeysuckle 197 00:07:39,749 --> 00:07:37,440 next morning as soon as i experienced 198 00:07:41,350 --> 00:07:39,759 the familiar paralysis i headed straight 199 00:07:43,430 --> 00:07:41,360 for the guest room 200 00:07:44,629 --> 00:07:43,440 sure enough there were the footprints in 201 00:07:46,790 --> 00:07:44,639 the carpet 202 00:07:48,550 --> 00:07:46,800 and the honeysuckle flowers 203 00:07:50,790 --> 00:07:48,560 while i had gained a valuable piece of 204 00:07:53,110 --> 00:07:50,800 information about these events 205 00:07:54,790 --> 00:07:53,120 why was i being carried from my house by 206 00:07:56,950 --> 00:07:54,800 short creatures 207 00:07:58,950 --> 00:07:56,960 strange and upsetting as all this was 208 00:08:01,029 --> 00:07:58,960 though it was nothing compared to the 209 00:08:03,270 --> 00:08:01,039 events that came next 210 00:08:05,270 --> 00:08:03,280 with all my strength and will i thought 211 00:08:06,150 --> 00:08:05,280 if this bizarre experience happens to me 212 00:08:08,710 --> 00:08:06,160 again 213 00:08:09,990 --> 00:08:08,720 i will be present and conscious i will 214 00:08:12,150 --> 00:08:10,000 remember 215 00:08:14,390 --> 00:08:12,160 i showed teresa the honeysuckle told her 216 00:08:16,230 --> 00:08:14,400 about the incident and my feelings 217 00:08:17,670 --> 00:08:16,240 she insisted i was playing some kind of 218 00:08:19,589 --> 00:08:17,680 strange joke 219 00:08:22,070 --> 00:08:19,599 people in the bedroom i would have heard 220 00:08:24,469 --> 00:08:22,080 them she said don't be silly 221 00:08:26,869 --> 00:08:24,479 unquote 222 00:08:29,350 --> 00:08:26,879 now there is much that is captured in 223 00:08:30,950 --> 00:08:29,360 that retelling of that early experience 224 00:08:32,469 --> 00:08:30,960 at least an early experience that he 225 00:08:34,389 --> 00:08:32,479 recalled 226 00:08:37,190 --> 00:08:34,399 first of all he initially thought these 227 00:08:39,350 --> 00:08:37,200 were strange dreams he was having so he 228 00:08:41,029 --> 00:08:39,360 decided to try and become lucid in them 229 00:08:44,790 --> 00:08:41,039 basically 230 00:08:45,829 --> 00:08:44,800 but as that unfolded and he saw actual 231 00:08:48,470 --> 00:08:45,839 evidence 232 00:08:50,870 --> 00:08:48,480 on the carpet leading towards a window 233 00:08:53,110 --> 00:08:50,880 as if he had been led by something 234 00:08:55,670 --> 00:08:53,120 from the outside back into the house and 235 00:08:56,710 --> 00:08:55,680 that it left flowers and grass on the 236 00:08:58,630 --> 00:08:56,720 carpet 237 00:09:02,389 --> 00:08:58,640 he obviously realized this seemed like 238 00:09:04,470 --> 00:09:02,399 an actual tangible physical event 239 00:09:06,389 --> 00:09:04,480 so he decided next time he was going to 240 00:09:09,030 --> 00:09:06,399 try and be even more conscious so he 241 00:09:11,670 --> 00:09:09,040 could really find out what was happening 242 00:09:14,150 --> 00:09:11,680 now what's also interesting is his wife 243 00:09:16,710 --> 00:09:14,160 remains asleep the entire time 244 00:09:18,550 --> 00:09:16,720 we're familiar with that scenario where 245 00:09:20,550 --> 00:09:18,560 a spouse or a friend 246 00:09:22,870 --> 00:09:20,560 is out of it completely comatose 247 00:09:24,310 --> 00:09:22,880 seemingly while abduction experiences 248 00:09:26,389 --> 00:09:24,320 apparently happen 249 00:09:29,430 --> 00:09:26,399 this demonstrates the control these 250 00:09:32,470 --> 00:09:29,440 others have not only over us but of all 251 00:09:34,870 --> 00:09:32,480 human beings that are around 252 00:09:36,389 --> 00:09:34,880 now what's interesting here in this case 253 00:09:37,670 --> 00:09:36,399 is despite her 254 00:09:40,630 --> 00:09:37,680 protests 255 00:09:42,790 --> 00:09:40,640 his wife teresa actually has more memory 256 00:09:44,949 --> 00:09:42,800 more familiarity with these others and 257 00:09:46,150 --> 00:09:44,959 these experiences than she initially 258 00:09:48,790 --> 00:09:46,160 lets on 259 00:09:50,710 --> 00:09:48,800 but we'll get to that 260 00:09:53,430 --> 00:09:50,720 now because this is yet another 261 00:09:55,750 --> 00:09:53,440 abduction slash contact case and because 262 00:09:57,829 --> 00:09:55,760 we've discussed a few of these now 263 00:09:59,670 --> 00:09:57,839 it might be helpful to step back a 264 00:10:01,509 --> 00:09:59,680 little bit and look at the big picture 265 00:10:04,389 --> 00:10:01,519 point of view 266 00:10:07,190 --> 00:10:04,399 these cases these abduction scenarios 267 00:10:10,389 --> 00:10:07,200 are actually controversial even within 268 00:10:12,470 --> 00:10:10,399 those familiar with the ufo phenomenon 269 00:10:15,030 --> 00:10:12,480 they're controversial because on one 270 00:10:16,829 --> 00:10:15,040 side you have people who believe 271 00:10:19,110 --> 00:10:16,839 these are real but 272 00:10:20,790 --> 00:10:19,120 dreamlike and you also have a different 273 00:10:22,949 --> 00:10:20,800 group that believes these are real and 274 00:10:24,870 --> 00:10:22,959 actually physically happening in our 275 00:10:27,190 --> 00:10:24,880 physical universe 276 00:10:29,030 --> 00:10:27,200 and then you have a third set which is 277 00:10:30,710 --> 00:10:29,040 sort of a combination of the two but 278 00:10:33,750 --> 00:10:30,720 more nuanced in a way 279 00:10:36,550 --> 00:10:33,760 because the idea is that real events are 280 00:10:38,389 --> 00:10:36,560 happening but that in addition to 281 00:10:40,630 --> 00:10:38,399 perhaps happening in an altered state of 282 00:10:42,949 --> 00:10:40,640 consciousness there is also kind of 283 00:10:46,230 --> 00:10:42,959 screening going on where 284 00:10:48,710 --> 00:10:46,240 images and scenarios are projected into 285 00:10:51,670 --> 00:10:48,720 the consciousness of the individual so 286 00:10:53,829 --> 00:10:51,680 they experience one kind of scenario but 287 00:10:55,509 --> 00:10:53,839 that only hides what is going on 288 00:10:57,910 --> 00:10:55,519 underneath 289 00:11:00,470 --> 00:10:57,920 now you're probably familiar that many 290 00:11:02,710 --> 00:11:00,480 people who experience abductions have 291 00:11:04,949 --> 00:11:02,720 screen memories that involves things 292 00:11:07,910 --> 00:11:04,959 like seeing an owl which we'll get to by 293 00:11:08,949 --> 00:11:07,920 the way that plays a strong role in this 294 00:11:11,430 --> 00:11:08,959 case 295 00:11:13,590 --> 00:11:11,440 they see owls or they see deer or they 296 00:11:15,750 --> 00:11:13,600 might see workmen on the road and then 297 00:11:18,310 --> 00:11:15,760 only later sometimes through hypnotic 298 00:11:21,590 --> 00:11:18,320 regression do they remember that those 299 00:11:23,590 --> 00:11:21,600 actually weren't workmen or owls or deer 300 00:11:26,550 --> 00:11:23,600 they were actually something like gray 301 00:11:28,310 --> 00:11:26,560 aliens or reptilians or mantids or what 302 00:11:30,389 --> 00:11:28,320 have you 303 00:11:33,750 --> 00:11:30,399 now a possibility that some have brought 304 00:11:36,150 --> 00:11:33,760 up is that if we indeed already strongly 305 00:11:39,670 --> 00:11:36,160 believe that screen memories are used 306 00:11:42,710 --> 00:11:39,680 where we see a deer or an owl or workman 307 00:11:44,470 --> 00:11:42,720 when really what's going on is aliens 308 00:11:46,710 --> 00:11:44,480 are showing up on the scene 309 00:11:47,670 --> 00:11:46,720 then what's to say the entire event 310 00:11:50,230 --> 00:11:47,680 isn't 311 00:11:52,230 --> 00:11:50,240 another layer of a screen memory in 312 00:11:53,269 --> 00:11:52,240 other words pull back the onion one more 313 00:11:55,350 --> 00:11:53,279 layer 314 00:11:57,590 --> 00:11:55,360 and even that the entire abduction 315 00:11:58,949 --> 00:11:57,600 scenario what if that also is a screen 316 00:12:01,269 --> 00:11:58,959 memory 317 00:12:03,509 --> 00:12:01,279 what if these actually aren't aliens at 318 00:12:05,269 --> 00:12:03,519 all and they don't really look that way 319 00:12:07,990 --> 00:12:05,279 and you're not really being taken to a 320 00:12:10,310 --> 00:12:08,000 spacecraft even though you remember that 321 00:12:12,550 --> 00:12:10,320 even if it takes one level of regression 322 00:12:14,389 --> 00:12:12,560 to get to that memory what's to say 323 00:12:16,150 --> 00:12:14,399 there aren't even deeper memories or 324 00:12:17,350 --> 00:12:16,160 deeper levels of reality that this is 325 00:12:19,509 --> 00:12:17,360 happening in 326 00:12:21,430 --> 00:12:19,519 because they have so much control over 327 00:12:24,389 --> 00:12:21,440 our consciousness and our experience of 328 00:12:27,269 --> 00:12:24,399 reality our perception of reality these 329 00:12:29,190 --> 00:12:27,279 are valid questions 330 00:12:31,509 --> 00:12:29,200 that said while i think there is some 331 00:12:33,509 --> 00:12:31,519 appeal to that argument it is somewhat 332 00:12:36,150 --> 00:12:33,519 self-defeating because it assumes that 333 00:12:37,750 --> 00:12:36,160 we can never really know what's going on 334 00:12:39,110 --> 00:12:37,760 i think we can do better than that 335 00:12:41,110 --> 00:12:39,120 personally 336 00:12:42,790 --> 00:12:41,120 i also think that some people who put 337 00:12:45,110 --> 00:12:42,800 forward that argument 338 00:12:47,750 --> 00:12:45,120 don't like the abduction scenarios they 339 00:12:50,470 --> 00:12:47,760 often are people who prefer more of a 340 00:12:52,550 --> 00:12:50,480 love and light or enlightened being kind 341 00:12:53,590 --> 00:12:52,560 of experience and they don't like some 342 00:12:56,870 --> 00:12:53,600 of the 343 00:12:59,590 --> 00:12:56,880 nasty or at least challenging startling 344 00:13:01,990 --> 00:12:59,600 disturbing details that sometimes arise 345 00:13:03,670 --> 00:13:02,000 in these experiences 346 00:13:05,430 --> 00:13:03,680 i don't think we can be so quick to 347 00:13:07,269 --> 00:13:05,440 dismiss those aspects though and say 348 00:13:10,230 --> 00:13:07,279 that's just a screen memory and there's 349 00:13:11,910 --> 00:13:10,240 a deeper reality that is always positive 350 00:13:14,790 --> 00:13:11,920 but these are issues we should think 351 00:13:18,069 --> 00:13:14,800 about because this is complex 352 00:13:21,190 --> 00:13:20,069 okay so putting aside for a moment the 353 00:13:22,790 --> 00:13:21,200 question of 354 00:13:25,430 --> 00:13:22,800 in what level of reality do these 355 00:13:27,030 --> 00:13:25,440 experiences take place and how literally 356 00:13:30,470 --> 00:13:27,040 do we remember them 357 00:13:32,710 --> 00:13:30,480 let's return to jim sparks experiences 358 00:13:34,710 --> 00:13:32,720 now as i mentioned in the introduction 359 00:13:35,590 --> 00:13:34,720 one of the interesting aspects about his 360 00:13:37,829 --> 00:13:35,600 case 361 00:13:39,670 --> 00:13:37,839 is that these abduction experiences 362 00:13:42,069 --> 00:13:39,680 weren't just random and it's not like he 363 00:13:43,990 --> 00:13:42,079 was taken on board a craft and then came 364 00:13:46,629 --> 00:13:44,000 back and didn't remember anything of 365 00:13:49,509 --> 00:13:46,639 import actually taking place 366 00:13:52,230 --> 00:13:49,519 to the contrary he actually underwent a 367 00:13:53,990 --> 00:13:52,240 kind of schooling by these others 368 00:13:57,110 --> 00:13:54,000 of course people like whitley strieber 369 00:13:59,350 --> 00:13:57,120 have talked about similar experiences 370 00:14:01,030 --> 00:13:59,360 in this case jim was learning about the 371 00:14:02,389 --> 00:14:01,040 alien alphabet 372 00:14:03,990 --> 00:14:02,399 and i want to quote from that part of 373 00:14:04,949 --> 00:14:04,000 the book 374 00:14:07,590 --> 00:14:04,959 quote 375 00:14:11,110 --> 00:14:07,600 the letter a appeared on the wall screen 376 00:14:13,030 --> 00:14:11,120 next to it was some strange hieroglyph 377 00:14:15,189 --> 00:14:13,040 somehow i sensed that it was supposed to 378 00:14:17,189 --> 00:14:15,199 be another language's equivalent the 379 00:14:19,509 --> 00:14:17,199 alien letter faded and then traced 380 00:14:21,509 --> 00:14:19,519 itself out again as though to instruct 381 00:14:23,350 --> 00:14:21,519 me on its formation 382 00:14:25,590 --> 00:14:23,360 i grasped immediately that i was 383 00:14:27,829 --> 00:14:25,600 supposed to write the alien letter out 384 00:14:31,269 --> 00:14:27,839 on the table screen before me with a 385 00:14:33,110 --> 00:14:31,279 forefinger unquote 386 00:14:35,269 --> 00:14:33,120 now this part of the book is very 387 00:14:37,430 --> 00:14:35,279 interesting somewhat disturbing it 388 00:14:39,189 --> 00:14:37,440 definitely makes you think anyway 389 00:14:41,590 --> 00:14:39,199 because it's very clear that these 390 00:14:44,710 --> 00:14:41,600 others these apparent alien beings that 391 00:14:46,629 --> 00:14:44,720 initially jim sparks assumes our et's 392 00:14:48,710 --> 00:14:46,639 extraterrestrials 393 00:14:51,509 --> 00:14:48,720 are using a kind of 394 00:14:55,189 --> 00:14:51,519 punishment and reward kind of scenario 395 00:14:57,670 --> 00:14:55,199 to get him to learn their alien language 396 00:14:59,750 --> 00:14:57,680 now some will find this alarming because 397 00:15:01,910 --> 00:14:59,760 they don't seem to ask his permission 398 00:15:03,030 --> 00:15:01,920 before they embark on these teaching 399 00:15:04,870 --> 00:15:03,040 sessions 400 00:15:07,189 --> 00:15:04,880 he feels a kind of pressure in his head 401 00:15:11,030 --> 00:15:07,199 when he refuses to learn and feels a 402 00:15:12,629 --> 00:15:11,040 kind of euphoria when he obeys so he 403 00:15:14,310 --> 00:15:12,639 definitely gets the sense that they are 404 00:15:15,990 --> 00:15:14,320 the ones in control 405 00:15:18,550 --> 00:15:16,000 and this is what you're confronted with 406 00:15:21,990 --> 00:15:18,560 early in his book the sense that he is 407 00:15:23,829 --> 00:15:22,000 taken against his permission sometimes 408 00:15:25,110 --> 00:15:23,839 in fact most times not knowing when it's 409 00:15:26,949 --> 00:15:25,120 going to happen 410 00:15:29,430 --> 00:15:26,959 and in addition to that they are very 411 00:15:32,310 --> 00:15:29,440 much in control throughout the process 412 00:15:33,829 --> 00:15:32,320 and they very much steer the nature of 413 00:15:37,910 --> 00:15:33,839 his experiences 414 00:15:40,069 --> 00:15:37,920 basically forcing him to learn or else 415 00:15:42,230 --> 00:15:40,079 now the nature of the relationship does 416 00:15:44,150 --> 00:15:42,240 change over time as we've seen with many 417 00:15:47,430 --> 00:15:44,160 of these encounters 418 00:15:53,110 --> 00:15:49,829 now earlier on i mentioned screen 419 00:15:54,870 --> 00:15:53,120 memories and symbolic kind of images 420 00:15:57,189 --> 00:15:54,880 such as owls 421 00:15:58,710 --> 00:15:57,199 in the abduction literature owls are 422 00:16:00,629 --> 00:15:58,720 front and center 423 00:16:03,509 --> 00:16:00,639 they often use that screen memory 424 00:16:05,910 --> 00:16:03,519 apparently to cover over a more alarming 425 00:16:07,590 --> 00:16:05,920 reality which is that an alien is in 426 00:16:09,910 --> 00:16:07,600 your midst 427 00:16:12,710 --> 00:16:09,920 often when people have regression done 428 00:16:13,910 --> 00:16:12,720 they realize those owls aren't actually 429 00:16:15,350 --> 00:16:13,920 owls 430 00:16:17,110 --> 00:16:15,360 and of course the most famous 431 00:16:19,189 --> 00:16:17,120 experiencer this happened to is probably 432 00:16:21,749 --> 00:16:19,199 whitley strieber and he covers this 433 00:16:22,949 --> 00:16:21,759 aspect in a lot of detail in the first 434 00:16:24,710 --> 00:16:22,959 three books 435 00:16:26,870 --> 00:16:24,720 that he wrote about the phenomenon the 436 00:16:28,870 --> 00:16:26,880 communion trilogy 437 00:16:31,590 --> 00:16:28,880 now sparks talks about his own 438 00:16:33,509 --> 00:16:31,600 experience with these owls and reflects 439 00:16:36,629 --> 00:16:33,519 on strieber's writing 440 00:16:38,629 --> 00:16:36,639 quoting from his book again quote later 441 00:16:40,230 --> 00:16:38,639 however because of specialists who 442 00:16:42,389 --> 00:16:40,240 helped me understand that i was not 443 00:16:44,710 --> 00:16:42,399 alone in these experiences i learned 444 00:16:47,430 --> 00:16:44,720 that while every abductee has his own 445 00:16:48,870 --> 00:16:47,440 unique encounters with aliens there are 446 00:16:51,430 --> 00:16:48,880 some elements of the abduction 447 00:16:54,389 --> 00:16:51,440 phenomenon that keep recurring 448 00:16:56,230 --> 00:16:54,399 for instance this translucent owl which 449 00:16:58,389 --> 00:16:56,240 gave me the feeling of the presence of a 450 00:17:00,389 --> 00:16:58,399 great wisdom 451 00:17:02,310 --> 00:17:00,399 now whether or not that was because i'd 452 00:17:05,750 --> 00:17:02,320 always thought about owls as symbols of 453 00:17:08,470 --> 00:17:05,760 wisdom i don't know my friend tim from 454 00:17:11,029 --> 00:17:08,480 my alien abductees support group which i 455 00:17:12,789 --> 00:17:11,039 didn't join alas until years after my 456 00:17:15,110 --> 00:17:12,799 first experiences 457 00:17:17,350 --> 00:17:15,120 told me owls figured prominently in 458 00:17:19,590 --> 00:17:17,360 whitley strieber's communion 459 00:17:21,909 --> 00:17:19,600 striper saw lots of owls in the woods by 460 00:17:23,750 --> 00:17:21,919 his cabin where he had many of his 461 00:17:27,350 --> 00:17:23,760 abduction encounters 462 00:17:30,230 --> 00:17:27,360 the visitors liked symbols i guess 463 00:17:32,630 --> 00:17:30,240 to me it soon became apparent that what 464 00:17:34,070 --> 00:17:32,640 the spectral al signified 465 00:17:36,710 --> 00:17:34,080 it meant school 466 00:17:39,430 --> 00:17:36,720 it meant time for class i got to know it 467 00:17:41,510 --> 00:17:39,440 as a symbol meaning get ready to learn 468 00:17:43,510 --> 00:17:41,520 jim sparks 469 00:17:46,150 --> 00:17:43,520 almost every time the visitors take me 470 00:17:48,470 --> 00:17:46,160 they show me a symbol perhaps it keys 471 00:17:49,830 --> 00:17:48,480 off some kind of subliminal response in 472 00:17:51,830 --> 00:17:49,840 my psyche 473 00:17:53,750 --> 00:17:51,840 i gather for my abductee brothers and 474 00:17:56,070 --> 00:17:53,760 sisters that whitley strieber's thoughts 475 00:17:58,710 --> 00:17:56,080 on owls have gone very deep in the 476 00:18:00,549 --> 00:17:58,720 abductee mindset 477 00:18:03,110 --> 00:18:00,559 for me though it was simple a 478 00:18:05,830 --> 00:18:03,120 representation or symbol of an owl meant 479 00:18:07,990 --> 00:18:05,840 to adjust my mindset to learn 480 00:18:10,390 --> 00:18:08,000 it's become obvious to me that there are 481 00:18:12,549 --> 00:18:10,400 subtle shadings of meaning introduced 482 00:18:13,669 --> 00:18:12,559 with the alteration of these holographic 483 00:18:15,830 --> 00:18:13,679 forms 484 00:18:18,549 --> 00:18:15,840 that night though sitting on my couch 485 00:18:22,390 --> 00:18:18,559 staring at that perched owl with large 486 00:18:25,029 --> 00:18:22,400 strange round eyes horns feathers beacon 487 00:18:27,669 --> 00:18:25,039 talons staring down at me you can bet i 488 00:18:30,150 --> 00:18:27,679 wasn't paging through freud's book about 489 00:18:32,390 --> 00:18:30,160 dream meanings 490 00:18:33,830 --> 00:18:32,400 so just to be clear about what sparks 491 00:18:35,510 --> 00:18:33,840 just referred to 492 00:18:37,830 --> 00:18:35,520 what he mentions in the book quite 493 00:18:40,070 --> 00:18:37,840 frequently is that before he's abducted 494 00:18:42,390 --> 00:18:40,080 before these experiences happen 495 00:18:43,270 --> 00:18:42,400 he's given some sort of holographic 496 00:18:44,710 --> 00:18:43,280 symbol 497 00:18:46,470 --> 00:18:44,720 which gives him some sort of 498 00:18:47,350 --> 00:18:46,480 understanding of what's going to take 499 00:18:49,830 --> 00:18:47,360 place 500 00:18:51,510 --> 00:18:49,840 while on board the supposed craft 501 00:18:54,630 --> 00:18:51,520 what's going to happen in the hours he's 502 00:18:56,549 --> 00:18:54,640 gone sometimes it's a learning session 503 00:18:59,190 --> 00:18:56,559 what he calls school and when that was 504 00:19:00,870 --> 00:18:59,200 the case he would see an owl 505 00:19:02,549 --> 00:19:00,880 other times it would be a medical 506 00:19:03,669 --> 00:19:02,559 session either they would be checking on 507 00:19:06,310 --> 00:19:03,679 his health 508 00:19:09,029 --> 00:19:06,320 or they may be extracting semen because 509 00:19:11,510 --> 00:19:09,039 he definitely seemed to be involved in a 510 00:19:13,590 --> 00:19:11,520 hybridization program again some people 511 00:19:16,230 --> 00:19:13,600 find that difficult to deal with we'll 512 00:19:18,230 --> 00:19:16,240 discuss it more a little bit later but 513 00:19:20,870 --> 00:19:18,240 when that was going to be the case he 514 00:19:22,549 --> 00:19:20,880 would see some sort of medical tool 515 00:19:24,710 --> 00:19:22,559 again in the form of some kind of 516 00:19:27,029 --> 00:19:24,720 holographic projection that would let 517 00:19:30,710 --> 00:19:27,039 him know that the experience that night 518 00:19:32,950 --> 00:19:30,720 was going to be of that variety 519 00:19:35,669 --> 00:19:32,960 now when it came to the nature of these 520 00:19:38,310 --> 00:19:35,679 others it became clear to sparks that 521 00:19:40,710 --> 00:19:38,320 they were clearly superior to us that 522 00:19:43,590 --> 00:19:40,720 they thought much more quickly 523 00:19:45,830 --> 00:19:43,600 and in a more advanced way than we do 524 00:19:47,190 --> 00:19:45,840 and indeed as he continued to have these 525 00:19:49,669 --> 00:19:47,200 sessions where he would learn their 526 00:19:52,070 --> 00:19:49,679 alphabet he recognized it wasn't a 527 00:19:55,029 --> 00:19:52,080 simple one to one in terms of the letter 528 00:19:57,110 --> 00:19:55,039 a corresponding to a symbol in their 529 00:19:57,909 --> 00:19:57,120 language there was more than that going 530 00:19:59,669 --> 00:19:57,919 on 531 00:20:01,750 --> 00:19:59,679 they were beginning to change the way 532 00:20:04,549 --> 00:20:01,760 his brain worked somehow this was 533 00:20:06,549 --> 00:20:04,559 happening behind the scenes he began to 534 00:20:09,350 --> 00:20:06,559 get a sense of this and of course with 535 00:20:11,510 --> 00:20:09,360 this we're reminded of the movie arrival 536 00:20:13,270 --> 00:20:11,520 where something similar happens where 537 00:20:14,789 --> 00:20:13,280 the character in that movie who is a 538 00:20:16,789 --> 00:20:14,799 linguist who's brought on board to try 539 00:20:19,590 --> 00:20:16,799 and understand their language 540 00:20:22,470 --> 00:20:19,600 finds that the way she perceives reality 541 00:20:24,789 --> 00:20:22,480 and even time begins to change as she 542 00:20:26,470 --> 00:20:24,799 learns their language 543 00:20:28,390 --> 00:20:26,480 now this is fascinating and in my 544 00:20:30,950 --> 00:20:28,400 background with psychology 545 00:20:33,430 --> 00:20:30,960 we learned about this how linguistics is 546 00:20:35,350 --> 00:20:33,440 tied very closely to thought when we 547 00:20:37,990 --> 00:20:35,360 learn a language it very much 548 00:20:40,390 --> 00:20:38,000 encompasses what we can even conceive of 549 00:20:42,070 --> 00:20:40,400 in terms of structuring thought 550 00:20:44,710 --> 00:20:42,080 there's very much a close relationship 551 00:20:46,390 --> 00:20:44,720 there and in this case as 552 00:20:48,470 --> 00:20:46,400 sparks learned their language he 553 00:20:51,990 --> 00:20:48,480 realized things were beginning to change 554 00:20:53,590 --> 00:20:52,000 in the way his brain processed reality 555 00:20:55,830 --> 00:20:53,600 and i want to quote from that section of 556 00:20:58,230 --> 00:20:55,840 the book quote 557 00:20:59,830 --> 00:20:58,240 the letter a appeared next to it was the 558 00:21:01,110 --> 00:20:59,840 alien equivalent 559 00:21:03,990 --> 00:21:01,120 at the time i thought it was a 560 00:21:06,070 --> 00:21:04,000 conversion from our alphabet to theirs 561 00:21:08,310 --> 00:21:06,080 i'm no linguist but i figure that just 562 00:21:10,230 --> 00:21:08,320 because the english alphabet has 26 563 00:21:12,789 --> 00:21:10,240 letters doesn't mean that alien 564 00:21:14,870 --> 00:21:12,799 creatures from wherever have an alphabet 565 00:21:17,270 --> 00:21:14,880 or language of their own that directly 566 00:21:19,350 --> 00:21:17,280 corresponds to our alphabet 567 00:21:21,510 --> 00:21:19,360 however for some reason this was the way 568 00:21:23,750 --> 00:21:21,520 they taught there must have been some 569 00:21:26,390 --> 00:21:23,760 other kind of process going on inside my 570 00:21:28,870 --> 00:21:26,400 mind and this was the way i interpreted 571 00:21:31,750 --> 00:21:28,880 it in a literal kind of way 572 00:21:35,590 --> 00:21:31,760 whatever these guys sure were working on 573 00:21:40,630 --> 00:21:38,149 now what you'll find interesting about 574 00:21:42,789 --> 00:21:40,640 these various abduction experiences is 575 00:21:44,470 --> 00:21:42,799 how many commonalities there are i find 576 00:21:46,310 --> 00:21:44,480 that very striking 577 00:21:47,590 --> 00:21:46,320 that tells me that something really is 578 00:21:48,870 --> 00:21:47,600 happening 579 00:21:51,350 --> 00:21:48,880 now the question of whether or not it's 580 00:21:53,750 --> 00:21:51,360 a screen memory or something literal is 581 00:21:54,789 --> 00:21:53,760 a different conversation but the fact 582 00:21:56,789 --> 00:21:54,799 that these 583 00:21:59,110 --> 00:21:56,799 various people are having such similar 584 00:22:01,110 --> 00:21:59,120 experiences suggest that these are more 585 00:22:02,470 --> 00:22:01,120 than just anomalies of the brain or 586 00:22:04,390 --> 00:22:02,480 something like that 587 00:22:07,590 --> 00:22:04,400 something external really is putting 588 00:22:09,990 --> 00:22:07,600 people through the paces so to speak 589 00:22:12,950 --> 00:22:10,000 and one of the interesting commonalities 590 00:22:15,110 --> 00:22:12,960 we find is the kind of beings that are 591 00:22:18,710 --> 00:22:15,120 encountered again we mentioned some of 592 00:22:21,270 --> 00:22:18,720 them earlier the grays the reptilians 593 00:22:23,510 --> 00:22:21,280 the mantids and on it goes of course we 594 00:22:25,990 --> 00:22:23,520 have the nordics and the tall whites 595 00:22:28,789 --> 00:22:26,000 other kind of humanoid figures as well 596 00:22:31,270 --> 00:22:28,799 now as we've discussed before 597 00:22:34,070 --> 00:22:31,280 sometimes people conclude that the small 598 00:22:36,149 --> 00:22:34,080 grays may be robots or androids of a 599 00:22:38,549 --> 00:22:36,159 sort or some sort of 600 00:22:41,270 --> 00:22:38,559 hybrid combination of an organic being 601 00:22:42,230 --> 00:22:41,280 and something programmed 602 00:22:44,310 --> 00:22:42,240 now 603 00:22:46,310 --> 00:22:44,320 in addition there are the taller grays 604 00:22:47,750 --> 00:22:46,320 or beings that look somewhat like the 605 00:22:49,430 --> 00:22:47,760 grays there are some distinct 606 00:22:51,510 --> 00:22:49,440 differences too 607 00:22:53,190 --> 00:22:51,520 and this is exactly what jim sparks 608 00:22:55,669 --> 00:22:53,200 encounters in his 609 00:22:57,909 --> 00:22:55,679 abduction scenarios he encounters the 610 00:22:59,430 --> 00:22:57,919 small grays and he perceives them as a 611 00:23:01,110 --> 00:22:59,440 kind of robot 612 00:23:03,350 --> 00:23:01,120 then there are those that are taller 613 00:23:06,070 --> 00:23:03,360 about five feet tall and he refers to 614 00:23:08,710 --> 00:23:06,080 these as supervisors these seemed like 615 00:23:10,390 --> 00:23:08,720 fully organic biological beings to him 616 00:23:12,549 --> 00:23:10,400 and he would even notice details like 617 00:23:14,070 --> 00:23:12,559 wrinkles in their skin suggesting that 618 00:23:16,149 --> 00:23:14,080 they age 619 00:23:18,630 --> 00:23:16,159 and it was very clear to him that these 620 00:23:21,430 --> 00:23:18,640 were the ones really running the scenes 621 00:23:22,870 --> 00:23:21,440 these were the ones in charge 622 00:23:25,909 --> 00:23:22,880 and i want to quote from a section of 623 00:23:27,990 --> 00:23:25,919 the book right now where he discusses 624 00:23:31,430 --> 00:23:28,000 having a very up close and personal 625 00:23:32,390 --> 00:23:31,440 experience with one of these supervisors 626 00:23:34,789 --> 00:23:32,400 quote 627 00:23:36,630 --> 00:23:34,799 i could sense this being leaning down i 628 00:23:39,029 --> 00:23:36,640 could feel its head no more than three 629 00:23:41,110 --> 00:23:39,039 inches from mine i couldn't quite make 630 00:23:43,350 --> 00:23:41,120 out him directly but i got the 631 00:23:44,789 --> 00:23:43,360 suggestion of an outline of a face and a 632 00:23:47,190 --> 00:23:44,799 taller body 633 00:23:50,149 --> 00:23:47,200 in retrospect i realized that this thing 634 00:23:52,630 --> 00:23:50,159 was some sort of manager or supervisor 635 00:23:55,110 --> 00:23:52,640 while the others were underlings 636 00:23:57,029 --> 00:23:55,120 this was organized like a beehive with 637 00:23:59,590 --> 00:23:57,039 drones and workers 638 00:24:01,269 --> 00:23:59,600 as i think back on my experiences now i 639 00:24:03,669 --> 00:24:01,279 realized that i noticed something about 640 00:24:06,070 --> 00:24:03,679 those first two aliens i encountered 641 00:24:08,710 --> 00:24:06,080 they seemed a little robotic with rather 642 00:24:11,110 --> 00:24:08,720 unnatural movements their mannerisms 643 00:24:13,269 --> 00:24:11,120 were more programmed and methodical 644 00:24:14,310 --> 00:24:13,279 whereas the larger supervisors had a 645 00:24:17,190 --> 00:24:14,320 fluid 646 00:24:19,590 --> 00:24:17,200 more definitively biological movement 647 00:24:23,750 --> 00:24:19,600 even then i thought the workers were the 648 00:24:26,230 --> 00:24:23,760 creation of the other taller visitors 649 00:24:29,190 --> 00:24:26,240 the workers are shorter with large eyes 650 00:24:31,110 --> 00:24:29,200 and featureless blank faces 651 00:24:34,070 --> 00:24:31,120 the supervisors as i was beginning to 652 00:24:36,310 --> 00:24:34,080 make out now were tall with that same 653 00:24:38,230 --> 00:24:36,320 leathery texture to their faces 654 00:24:40,390 --> 00:24:38,240 their eyes and heads are a little bigger 655 00:24:42,870 --> 00:24:40,400 than ours but not nearly as large as the 656 00:24:45,750 --> 00:24:42,880 workers and their eyes are much more 657 00:24:48,390 --> 00:24:45,760 focused both the supervisor beings and 658 00:24:50,149 --> 00:24:48,400 workers have bodies that are very skinny 659 00:24:52,630 --> 00:24:50,159 almost atrophied 660 00:24:54,470 --> 00:24:52,640 unquote 661 00:24:56,710 --> 00:24:54,480 now speaking of the appearance and 662 00:24:59,669 --> 00:24:56,720 nature of these others 663 00:25:01,710 --> 00:24:59,679 over time various clues suggested jim 664 00:25:03,909 --> 00:25:01,720 sparks that perhaps these beings aren't 665 00:25:06,390 --> 00:25:03,919 extraterrestrial so much as 666 00:25:08,630 --> 00:25:06,400 interdimensional and there are a variety 667 00:25:10,149 --> 00:25:08,640 of reasons why he concludes that 668 00:25:11,830 --> 00:25:10,159 now of course this is interesting 669 00:25:12,950 --> 00:25:11,840 because this is one of the main 670 00:25:16,470 --> 00:25:12,960 questions 671 00:25:18,710 --> 00:25:16,480 banteed about amongst the ufo community 672 00:25:20,470 --> 00:25:18,720 where do these beings come from are they 673 00:25:22,789 --> 00:25:20,480 extraterrestrial meaning coming from 674 00:25:25,110 --> 00:25:22,799 some other planet within our physical 675 00:25:27,430 --> 00:25:25,120 construct of a universe or are they 676 00:25:29,669 --> 00:25:27,440 perhaps from some alternate dimension 677 00:25:32,710 --> 00:25:29,679 and hopping back and forth from that 678 00:25:34,070 --> 00:25:32,720 locale to our dimension 679 00:25:36,149 --> 00:25:34,080 now i'd like to quote from a section of 680 00:25:37,350 --> 00:25:36,159 the book where sparks is talking about 681 00:25:38,230 --> 00:25:37,360 this 682 00:25:40,070 --> 00:25:38,240 quote 683 00:25:42,310 --> 00:25:40,080 this was also about the time that 684 00:25:44,870 --> 00:25:42,320 despite my ragged state i was beginning 685 00:25:47,190 --> 00:25:44,880 to perceive other strangeness and i 686 00:25:49,990 --> 00:25:47,200 began formulating a theory 687 00:25:52,230 --> 00:25:50,000 namely that these things or creatures 688 00:25:54,230 --> 00:25:52,240 may not be from another planet so much 689 00:25:56,149 --> 00:25:54,240 as from another dimension 690 00:25:59,350 --> 00:25:56,159 i'd noticed that when i saw them in this 691 00:26:01,909 --> 00:25:59,360 world they only seemed to be partly here 692 00:26:03,430 --> 00:26:01,919 also i would see these visitors walking 693 00:26:05,510 --> 00:26:03,440 through walls 694 00:26:07,110 --> 00:26:05,520 my dimension theory would explain this 695 00:26:09,430 --> 00:26:07,120 since it would afford them the ability 696 00:26:11,750 --> 00:26:09,440 to work in our dimension and yet be in 697 00:26:14,630 --> 00:26:11,760 theirs at the same time 698 00:26:16,070 --> 00:26:14,640 a kind of phasing effect if you will 699 00:26:19,110 --> 00:26:16,080 anyway that's what i was starting to 700 00:26:20,710 --> 00:26:19,120 think and future experience bore me out 701 00:26:22,950 --> 00:26:20,720 this business with the dancing 702 00:26:25,590 --> 00:26:22,960 knickknacks in the house was the result 703 00:26:27,590 --> 00:26:25,600 of my interaction with the field 704 00:26:29,830 --> 00:26:27,600 the more i got abducted the stronger 705 00:26:31,750 --> 00:26:29,840 this residual effect got 706 00:26:33,190 --> 00:26:31,760 the paranormal activity i discovered 707 00:26:35,669 --> 00:26:33,200 later when i got involved with 708 00:26:39,190 --> 00:26:35,679 researchers and groups happens to most 709 00:26:41,190 --> 00:26:39,200 abductees as do precognitive activities 710 00:26:43,029 --> 00:26:41,200 which i'll discuss later 711 00:26:44,950 --> 00:26:43,039 unquote 712 00:26:47,909 --> 00:26:44,960 so very interesting here 713 00:26:50,310 --> 00:26:47,919 we have sparks theorizing that perhaps 714 00:26:52,950 --> 00:26:50,320 because they are somewhat translucent 715 00:26:54,710 --> 00:26:52,960 this might mean they're only partly here 716 00:26:56,390 --> 00:26:54,720 and we've definitely talked about this 717 00:26:59,750 --> 00:26:56,400 this would allow them to appear and 718 00:27:01,909 --> 00:26:59,760 disappear on demand basically 719 00:27:03,909 --> 00:27:01,919 now what's also interesting is he begins 720 00:27:06,710 --> 00:27:03,919 to experience these poltergeist like 721 00:27:08,630 --> 00:27:06,720 effects and we've discussed this before 722 00:27:11,110 --> 00:27:08,640 in fact we talked about it last week in 723 00:27:13,190 --> 00:27:11,120 the john keel episode 724 00:27:14,950 --> 00:27:13,200 the fact that this does happen to many 725 00:27:17,269 --> 00:27:14,960 experiencers that once they've had 726 00:27:19,029 --> 00:27:17,279 contact with these others 727 00:27:21,110 --> 00:27:19,039 their reality around them in their 728 00:27:23,269 --> 00:27:21,120 everyday experience begins to show 729 00:27:25,750 --> 00:27:23,279 strange side effects things like 730 00:27:28,149 --> 00:27:25,760 electrical charges surges 731 00:27:30,630 --> 00:27:28,159 power going in and out devices not 732 00:27:33,430 --> 00:27:30,640 working properly that kind of thing 733 00:27:35,110 --> 00:27:33,440 that seems to happen quite often 734 00:27:36,630 --> 00:27:35,120 an interesting question of course is 735 00:27:38,789 --> 00:27:36,640 what causes this 736 00:27:41,269 --> 00:27:38,799 as i mentioned last week i've theorized 737 00:27:43,269 --> 00:27:41,279 that once that door has been opened 738 00:27:44,149 --> 00:27:43,279 something seems to be flipped on like a 739 00:27:47,510 --> 00:27:44,159 switch 740 00:27:49,830 --> 00:27:47,520 and this allows various different 741 00:27:52,149 --> 00:27:49,840 realities to interact with you that 742 00:27:54,470 --> 00:27:52,159 might be part of it it may also just be 743 00:27:56,070 --> 00:27:54,480 that there is kind of a residual effect 744 00:27:58,230 --> 00:27:56,080 and that's what sparks seems to be 745 00:28:00,710 --> 00:27:58,240 hinting at here and this will for a 746 00:28:03,350 --> 00:28:00,720 period of time show up in strange 747 00:28:06,070 --> 00:28:03,360 manifestations around electrical devices 748 00:28:09,510 --> 00:28:07,830 now at this point i want to make it 749 00:28:12,230 --> 00:28:09,520 clearer that this was not just an 750 00:28:14,549 --> 00:28:12,240 interesting intellectual exercise 751 00:28:16,549 --> 00:28:14,559 for jim to ponder about 752 00:28:19,269 --> 00:28:16,559 now these experiences were having 753 00:28:21,750 --> 00:28:19,279 profound effects on his everyday life 754 00:28:23,669 --> 00:28:21,760 profound effects on his job and on his 755 00:28:25,430 --> 00:28:23,679 marriage and i want to quote from the 756 00:28:27,990 --> 00:28:25,440 section of the book where he talks about 757 00:28:29,110 --> 00:28:28,000 the strain becoming too much 758 00:28:30,870 --> 00:28:29,120 quote 759 00:28:34,149 --> 00:28:30,880 in real life though things started 760 00:28:35,909 --> 00:28:34,159 falling apart i was an emotional mess 761 00:28:38,950 --> 00:28:35,919 all the things that keep a normal life 762 00:28:42,070 --> 00:28:38,960 functioning friends family business and 763 00:28:44,070 --> 00:28:42,080 personal life began to disintegrate 764 00:28:45,510 --> 00:28:44,080 people began to suggest to me that i 765 00:28:48,230 --> 00:28:45,520 seem to be having some sort of 766 00:28:51,269 --> 00:28:48,240 psychological difficulty i knew that 767 00:28:54,389 --> 00:28:51,279 already they just didn't know why 768 00:28:55,269 --> 00:28:54,399 in mid-march 1989 the strain was too 769 00:28:57,750 --> 00:28:55,279 much 770 00:28:59,830 --> 00:28:57,760 i was on the verge of losing my mind and 771 00:29:01,510 --> 00:28:59,840 i felt like a pressure relief valve 772 00:29:04,149 --> 00:29:01,520 about to blow 773 00:29:06,149 --> 00:29:04,159 should i confess to teresa i was still 774 00:29:08,549 --> 00:29:06,159 concerned that it would frighten her and 775 00:29:10,470 --> 00:29:08,559 maybe wedge something between us 776 00:29:12,549 --> 00:29:10,480 i knew nothing about people like bud 777 00:29:14,630 --> 00:29:12,559 hopkins or alien abduction support 778 00:29:16,630 --> 00:29:14,640 groups at the time 779 00:29:17,669 --> 00:29:16,640 you would think i'd go to a library and 780 00:29:19,350 --> 00:29:17,679 research 781 00:29:21,750 --> 00:29:19,360 all i can say was that i just didn't 782 00:29:22,549 --> 00:29:21,760 realize that other people could be like 783 00:29:27,269 --> 00:29:22,559 me 784 00:29:30,470 --> 00:29:27,279 besides i guess just wasn't thinking 785 00:29:32,870 --> 00:29:30,480 straight unquote 786 00:29:35,350 --> 00:29:32,880 now of course this is very common people 787 00:29:37,830 --> 00:29:35,360 go through this quite frequently and we 788 00:29:40,549 --> 00:29:37,840 should always remember this part of the 789 00:29:42,310 --> 00:29:40,559 phenomenon that it turns people's lives 790 00:29:44,310 --> 00:29:42,320 upside down 791 00:29:46,470 --> 00:29:44,320 perhaps now it's somewhat easier that 792 00:29:48,549 --> 00:29:46,480 people can get in contact with support 793 00:29:51,430 --> 00:29:48,559 groups more easily 794 00:29:53,190 --> 00:29:51,440 and even jim mentions that nowadays this 795 00:29:54,389 --> 00:29:53,200 is much more accepted and seems to be 796 00:29:57,110 --> 00:29:54,399 part of the 797 00:29:58,789 --> 00:29:57,120 lore of our history as a civilization 798 00:30:00,070 --> 00:29:58,799 people have at least heard about these 799 00:30:02,149 --> 00:30:00,080 kind of things 800 00:30:05,430 --> 00:30:02,159 but when it was happening to jim back in 801 00:30:07,110 --> 00:30:05,440 the 1980s it was much less known he 802 00:30:08,950 --> 00:30:07,120 certainly didn't know much about it and 803 00:30:11,590 --> 00:30:08,960 he didn't realize at first that other 804 00:30:13,350 --> 00:30:11,600 people may be having the same experience 805 00:30:15,110 --> 00:30:13,360 as he was having 806 00:30:16,630 --> 00:30:15,120 and again it made him even question his 807 00:30:18,149 --> 00:30:16,640 own sanity 808 00:30:20,310 --> 00:30:18,159 at this point he still hadn't talked to 809 00:30:22,149 --> 00:30:20,320 his wife either hadn't confessed what 810 00:30:23,830 --> 00:30:22,159 had been happening to him or at least 811 00:30:25,510 --> 00:30:23,840 what he had perceived was happening to 812 00:30:27,750 --> 00:30:25,520 him because again 813 00:30:31,269 --> 00:30:27,760 often people wrestle with the nature of 814 00:30:34,070 --> 00:30:31,279 these experiences the reality of them 815 00:30:36,070 --> 00:30:34,080 now as i just mentioned at this point he 816 00:30:38,630 --> 00:30:36,080 hadn't even shared with his wife what 817 00:30:40,149 --> 00:30:38,640 was going on he didn't want her to think 818 00:30:42,149 --> 00:30:40,159 he was crazy 819 00:30:45,110 --> 00:30:42,159 but something happened that made him 820 00:30:47,269 --> 00:30:45,120 much more ready to talk to her about it 821 00:30:49,430 --> 00:30:47,279 what happened was in the middle of one 822 00:30:51,669 --> 00:30:49,440 of these abduction scenarios when he is 823 00:30:55,029 --> 00:30:51,679 learning the alien language in one of 824 00:30:57,190 --> 00:30:55,039 these school sessions aboard a starship 825 00:30:58,789 --> 00:30:57,200 a wall becomes transparent and in 826 00:31:01,269 --> 00:30:58,799 another room 827 00:31:04,710 --> 00:31:01,279 sitting and staring at a screen was his 828 00:31:07,350 --> 00:31:04,720 wife was teresa she was apparently also 829 00:31:09,509 --> 00:31:07,360 being schooled in this alien language 830 00:31:11,990 --> 00:31:09,519 and again not just language but a 831 00:31:14,630 --> 00:31:12,000 different kind of thinking 832 00:31:16,950 --> 00:31:14,640 now you might think this could have just 833 00:31:20,070 --> 00:31:16,960 been a hallucination this could have 834 00:31:21,990 --> 00:31:20,080 just been a projection by these others 835 00:31:23,430 --> 00:31:22,000 again they can manipulate our perception 836 00:31:25,190 --> 00:31:23,440 in many ways 837 00:31:27,110 --> 00:31:25,200 that's a fair assumption or at least 838 00:31:29,990 --> 00:31:27,120 postulation to make 839 00:31:32,389 --> 00:31:30,000 but later on jim actually confronts his 840 00:31:35,509 --> 00:31:32,399 wife back in the waking world 841 00:31:38,389 --> 00:31:35,519 and eventually she admits yes indeed 842 00:31:40,389 --> 00:31:38,399 she's had experiences with these others 843 00:31:41,909 --> 00:31:40,399 in fact going all the way back to 844 00:31:43,590 --> 00:31:41,919 childhood 845 00:31:45,509 --> 00:31:43,600 she doesn't call them aliens though she 846 00:31:48,230 --> 00:31:45,519 doesn't see them like that again from 847 00:31:51,830 --> 00:31:48,240 her background her cultural milieu what 848 00:31:53,350 --> 00:31:51,840 she calls them is my helpers from heaven 849 00:31:55,430 --> 00:31:53,360 but she's clearly 850 00:31:57,350 --> 00:31:55,440 compartmentalized that part of her life 851 00:31:58,870 --> 00:31:57,360 she doesn't talk about it she knows that 852 00:32:01,509 --> 00:31:58,880 they don't really want her to talk about 853 00:32:03,590 --> 00:32:01,519 it so she follows orders that part of 854 00:32:04,710 --> 00:32:03,600 her life happens but kind of in the 855 00:32:06,230 --> 00:32:04,720 background 856 00:32:08,630 --> 00:32:06,240 and she doesn't even want to talk about 857 00:32:11,110 --> 00:32:08,640 it anymore with jim so even though he 858 00:32:13,590 --> 00:32:11,120 has this common experience with his wife 859 00:32:15,029 --> 00:32:13,600 he still has to go it alone from then on 860 00:32:17,990 --> 00:32:15,039 trying to make sense of these 861 00:32:22,870 --> 00:32:20,630 now speaking of family connections if 862 00:32:25,190 --> 00:32:22,880 you read the book you'll find out that 863 00:32:26,630 --> 00:32:25,200 eventually jim shares his experiences 864 00:32:28,149 --> 00:32:26,640 with his parents 865 00:32:30,789 --> 00:32:28,159 now his father doesn't really want to 866 00:32:33,269 --> 00:32:30,799 hear about it he's fairly dismissive 867 00:32:36,149 --> 00:32:33,279 but his mother eventually confesses to 868 00:32:38,630 --> 00:32:36,159 jim that she too has had lifelong 869 00:32:40,870 --> 00:32:38,640 experiences with these others 870 00:32:42,789 --> 00:32:40,880 again though the frame of reference for 871 00:32:44,389 --> 00:32:42,799 her is different the way she interprets 872 00:32:47,430 --> 00:32:44,399 them is different 873 00:32:50,070 --> 00:32:47,440 she calls them doctors and she sees them 874 00:32:52,149 --> 00:32:50,080 as somehow helping her medically but she 875 00:32:54,549 --> 00:32:52,159 too tends to compartmentalize it like 876 00:32:56,470 --> 00:32:54,559 his wife and doesn't talk about it much 877 00:32:59,430 --> 00:32:56,480 beyond that 878 00:33:01,669 --> 00:32:59,440 now eventually as i mentioned earlier 879 00:33:04,389 --> 00:33:01,679 the nature of the relationship with 880 00:33:06,070 --> 00:33:04,399 these others begins to change 881 00:33:09,350 --> 00:33:06,080 and he begins to refer to his 882 00:33:10,870 --> 00:33:09,360 experiences as going from resistance to 883 00:33:13,909 --> 00:33:10,880 cooperation 884 00:33:15,350 --> 00:33:13,919 he sees these others more like equals 885 00:33:17,669 --> 00:33:15,360 even though they are clearly still in 886 00:33:19,509 --> 00:33:17,679 charge in some ways and in control 887 00:33:21,750 --> 00:33:19,519 they begin to treat him more like an 888 00:33:22,870 --> 00:33:21,760 equal once they feel that they can trust 889 00:33:24,710 --> 00:33:22,880 him 890 00:33:27,350 --> 00:33:24,720 and speaking of that they actually put 891 00:33:29,669 --> 00:33:27,360 him through various tests to prove to 892 00:33:31,110 --> 00:33:29,679 themselves that they can trust him and 893 00:33:33,509 --> 00:33:31,120 after that the nature of the 894 00:33:35,269 --> 00:33:33,519 relationship begins to change 895 00:33:37,590 --> 00:33:35,279 and this part of the phenomenon has been 896 00:33:40,470 --> 00:33:37,600 discussed before it does seem to be the 897 00:33:43,029 --> 00:33:40,480 case that our fight-or-flight reactions 898 00:33:44,549 --> 00:33:43,039 are perhaps overwhelming to them and 899 00:33:47,190 --> 00:33:44,559 that's partly why they have such a 900 00:33:49,750 --> 00:33:47,200 standoffish attitude towards us 901 00:33:51,590 --> 00:33:49,760 and can come across as uncaring and 902 00:33:53,669 --> 00:33:51,600 unfeeling 903 00:33:55,909 --> 00:33:53,679 but eventually again the relationship 904 00:33:59,110 --> 00:33:55,919 does change for jim as it has for other 905 00:34:01,350 --> 00:33:59,120 people we've discussed on this podcast 906 00:34:04,070 --> 00:34:01,360 he also begins to get what he perceives 907 00:34:06,549 --> 00:34:04,080 as direct answers to his questions and 908 00:34:08,950 --> 00:34:06,559 that's a new turn of events 909 00:34:11,109 --> 00:34:08,960 quoting from the book again quote 910 00:34:12,389 --> 00:34:11,119 i appreciated this new kind of attitude 911 00:34:13,990 --> 00:34:12,399 toward me 912 00:34:15,669 --> 00:34:14,000 what are you creatures that you can do 913 00:34:18,710 --> 00:34:15,679 something like that 914 00:34:20,310 --> 00:34:18,720 the energy they radiated was not a bluff 915 00:34:22,230 --> 00:34:20,320 i knew they were going to give me a 916 00:34:24,550 --> 00:34:22,240 truthful answer 917 00:34:27,349 --> 00:34:24,560 we are star people 918 00:34:29,990 --> 00:34:27,359 okay so you say but what exactly is that 919 00:34:33,510 --> 00:34:30,000 supposed to mean star people like you're 920 00:34:35,510 --> 00:34:33,520 from another star okay but people look 921 00:34:36,869 --> 00:34:35,520 humans are people and you're not human 922 00:34:39,030 --> 00:34:36,879 certainly 923 00:34:40,710 --> 00:34:39,040 they had no response to that but i've 924 00:34:42,310 --> 00:34:40,720 been thinking about something else and 925 00:34:44,790 --> 00:34:42,320 as long as they seem to be listening to 926 00:34:45,990 --> 00:34:44,800 me i figured i might as well let go with 927 00:34:48,149 --> 00:34:46,000 it 928 00:34:49,829 --> 00:34:48,159 okay so you're from another star which 929 00:34:52,389 --> 00:34:49,839 means you get back and forth in some 930 00:34:54,550 --> 00:34:52,399 sort of starship so if i wanted to go 931 00:34:56,310 --> 00:34:54,560 with you you know travel the universe 932 00:34:57,910 --> 00:34:56,320 would you take me 933 00:34:59,829 --> 00:34:57,920 yes 934 00:35:02,310 --> 00:34:59,839 much time passed and thought because i 935 00:35:03,829 --> 00:35:02,320 knew they meant what they said if i 936 00:35:05,030 --> 00:35:03,839 didn't like it would you bring me back 937 00:35:06,390 --> 00:35:05,040 home 938 00:35:08,150 --> 00:35:06,400 no 939 00:35:10,870 --> 00:35:08,160 clearly they could do what they wanted 940 00:35:12,870 --> 00:35:10,880 with me at any time they had proven that 941 00:35:14,950 --> 00:35:12,880 nonetheless i sensed that they were 942 00:35:17,270 --> 00:35:14,960 telling the truth they would take me 943 00:35:18,230 --> 00:35:17,280 away if i requested it for whatever 944 00:35:19,829 --> 00:35:18,240 reason 945 00:35:22,230 --> 00:35:19,839 they were actually responding and 946 00:35:23,589 --> 00:35:22,240 listening to me and i found their offer 947 00:35:26,390 --> 00:35:23,599 intriguing 948 00:35:29,349 --> 00:35:26,400 then i began thinking no more hot dogs 949 00:35:31,270 --> 00:35:29,359 hamburgers steaks and oh my god no beer 950 00:35:32,790 --> 00:35:31,280 plus the smell of cut grass that gave me 951 00:35:35,030 --> 00:35:32,800 a warm feeling 952 00:35:37,190 --> 00:35:35,040 i contemplated this for a moment 953 00:35:39,910 --> 00:35:37,200 then said i love the earth and as much 954 00:35:41,349 --> 00:35:39,920 as i'd like to go i better pass for now 955 00:35:43,750 --> 00:35:41,359 but just for now 956 00:35:45,990 --> 00:35:43,760 unquote 957 00:35:48,069 --> 00:35:46,000 so let's be clear about what jim 958 00:35:50,710 --> 00:35:48,079 determined in terms of the nature of the 959 00:35:53,109 --> 00:35:50,720 relationship between himself and these 960 00:35:56,069 --> 00:35:53,119 others and in fact between many human 961 00:35:57,990 --> 00:35:56,079 beings apparently and these others 962 00:35:58,950 --> 00:35:58,000 they apparently have been interacting 963 00:36:01,990 --> 00:35:58,960 with us 964 00:36:04,710 --> 00:36:02,000 for generation millennia in fact at one 965 00:36:07,190 --> 00:36:04,720 point they showed him these projections 966 00:36:09,510 --> 00:36:07,200 of various previous incarnations going 967 00:36:10,390 --> 00:36:09,520 back in time a couple centuries at a 968 00:36:13,750 --> 00:36:10,400 time 969 00:36:15,430 --> 00:36:13,760 all the way back indeed to early 970 00:36:17,109 --> 00:36:15,440 humanity where we were basically not 971 00:36:18,710 --> 00:36:17,119 much more than apes 972 00:36:21,910 --> 00:36:18,720 and it was clear that they had been 973 00:36:23,430 --> 00:36:21,920 interacting with us throughout 974 00:36:26,150 --> 00:36:23,440 in addition there was clearly a 975 00:36:28,310 --> 00:36:26,160 hybridization program going on and of 976 00:36:30,550 --> 00:36:28,320 course this is very familiar to us this 977 00:36:33,030 --> 00:36:30,560 kind of scenario is discussed often in 978 00:36:34,710 --> 00:36:33,040 the ufo phenomenon it happens to people 979 00:36:37,990 --> 00:36:34,720 a lot of the time 980 00:36:40,790 --> 00:36:38,000 indeed jim goes on to one day meet a 981 00:36:42,950 --> 00:36:40,800 daughter that he recognizes that he sees 982 00:36:45,030 --> 00:36:42,960 her as having some of his features 983 00:36:47,829 --> 00:36:45,040 even though she has the larger eyes and 984 00:36:50,230 --> 00:36:47,839 various other aspects the small nose the 985 00:36:53,430 --> 00:36:50,240 slit for her mouth that definitely show 986 00:36:55,829 --> 00:36:53,440 that she is also partly alien 987 00:36:59,910 --> 00:36:55,839 the interaction they have is warm even 988 00:37:03,190 --> 00:37:01,670 now again some people will still be 989 00:37:04,470 --> 00:37:03,200 disturbed by the nature of these 990 00:37:06,630 --> 00:37:04,480 interactions 991 00:37:08,950 --> 00:37:06,640 because even though they become more 992 00:37:11,349 --> 00:37:08,960 cooperative with him more sharing with 993 00:37:13,109 --> 00:37:11,359 him over time once they trust him and 994 00:37:14,069 --> 00:37:13,119 sense that he won't act like a caged 995 00:37:15,910 --> 00:37:14,079 animal 996 00:37:18,150 --> 00:37:15,920 from another perspective they are still 997 00:37:20,790 --> 00:37:18,160 very much the ones in control they are 998 00:37:22,790 --> 00:37:20,800 the overseers they are the ones taking 999 00:37:25,670 --> 00:37:22,800 human beings supposedly on board these 1000 00:37:28,390 --> 00:37:25,680 craft and extracting either semen or 1001 00:37:31,990 --> 00:37:28,400 eggs in the case of females and using 1002 00:37:34,069 --> 00:37:32,000 these to supposedly create hybrids 1003 00:37:35,670 --> 00:37:34,079 now there is another side of things 1004 00:37:38,870 --> 00:37:35,680 though and that is that they do give 1005 00:37:41,430 --> 00:37:38,880 things in return for instance jim finds 1006 00:37:43,349 --> 00:37:41,440 that they often will operate on him 1007 00:37:46,069 --> 00:37:43,359 medically when something is wrong with 1008 00:37:48,950 --> 00:37:46,079 him at one point he was very very sick 1009 00:37:50,710 --> 00:37:48,960 with a very severe flu that perhaps it 1010 00:37:52,150 --> 00:37:50,720 seemed like he might not recover from 1011 00:37:53,270 --> 00:37:52,160 even though he didn't get sick very 1012 00:37:55,109 --> 00:37:53,280 often 1013 00:37:57,510 --> 00:37:55,119 they showed up on the scene 1014 00:37:59,349 --> 00:37:57,520 did some various operations and some 1015 00:38:02,230 --> 00:37:59,359 explorations into the nature of his 1016 00:38:04,790 --> 00:38:02,240 illness and the next morning he woke up 1017 00:38:07,190 --> 00:38:04,800 and was completely healed 1018 00:38:09,589 --> 00:38:07,200 also as i mentioned earlier there was 1019 00:38:12,390 --> 00:38:09,599 various capacities that came online 1020 00:38:14,710 --> 00:38:12,400 along the side spectrum and he sees this 1021 00:38:16,550 --> 00:38:14,720 as directly connected to teachings that 1022 00:38:18,390 --> 00:38:16,560 they gave him 1023 00:38:20,790 --> 00:38:18,400 again as i mentioned earlier 1024 00:38:22,950 --> 00:38:20,800 he begins to realize the implications of 1025 00:38:24,870 --> 00:38:22,960 their teachings were much deeper than he 1026 00:38:26,470 --> 00:38:24,880 first understood 1027 00:38:28,550 --> 00:38:26,480 that the nature of the teaching was 1028 00:38:29,910 --> 00:38:28,560 somehow changing the way his brain 1029 00:38:31,829 --> 00:38:29,920 operated 1030 00:38:33,829 --> 00:38:31,839 that he could begin to think at the 1031 00:38:36,150 --> 00:38:33,839 speed that they could and that he could 1032 00:38:37,910 --> 00:38:36,160 also begin to manipulate his physical 1033 00:38:41,270 --> 00:38:37,920 environment through the use of 1034 00:38:43,670 --> 00:38:41,280 capacities such as telekinesis 1035 00:38:45,990 --> 00:38:43,680 so this is why i referred to the nature 1036 00:38:49,349 --> 00:38:46,000 of the relationship between human beings 1037 00:38:52,069 --> 00:38:49,359 and these others as symbiotic 1038 00:38:54,150 --> 00:38:52,079 because we clearly seem to have been 1039 00:38:55,910 --> 00:38:54,160 for a very long period of time perhaps 1040 00:38:58,150 --> 00:38:55,920 our entire history 1041 00:39:01,510 --> 00:38:58,160 connected to and associated with these 1042 00:39:03,990 --> 00:39:01,520 others and they get things from us and 1043 00:39:06,230 --> 00:39:04,000 in exchange they do things for us they 1044 00:39:09,990 --> 00:39:06,240 take care of us medically and what not 1045 00:39:11,990 --> 00:39:10,000 and also perhaps increase our capacities 1046 00:39:12,950 --> 00:39:12,000 perhaps preparing us for something to 1047 00:39:15,510 --> 00:39:12,960 come 1048 00:39:18,630 --> 00:39:15,520 in fact jim senses that this is exactly 1049 00:39:23,670 --> 00:39:20,630 now one of the penultimate scenes in the 1050 00:39:26,390 --> 00:39:23,680 book is when a group of these others 1051 00:39:28,950 --> 00:39:26,400 reveal their true appearance to jim 1052 00:39:31,510 --> 00:39:28,960 according to them anyway what he sees is 1053 00:39:33,430 --> 00:39:31,520 a group of very large reptilians and 1054 00:39:34,710 --> 00:39:33,440 indeed they are quite daunting in 1055 00:39:36,870 --> 00:39:34,720 appearance 1056 00:39:38,470 --> 00:39:36,880 they say to him that they hid their true 1057 00:39:41,510 --> 00:39:38,480 appearance because they knew it would 1058 00:39:43,030 --> 00:39:41,520 put quote fear in his heart 1059 00:39:45,030 --> 00:39:43,040 they go on to say that they have 1060 00:39:47,109 --> 00:39:45,040 actually been in contact with human 1061 00:39:49,589 --> 00:39:47,119 governments and they've tried to help 1062 00:39:51,430 --> 00:39:49,599 humanity to transcend its level of 1063 00:39:54,550 --> 00:39:51,440 consciousness 1064 00:39:55,829 --> 00:39:54,560 this is what they say to him quote 1065 00:39:58,150 --> 00:39:55,839 there are some things you need to 1066 00:40:00,069 --> 00:39:58,160 understand yes it's true that we have 1067 00:40:01,349 --> 00:40:00,079 been in contact with your government and 1068 00:40:03,190 --> 00:40:01,359 heads of power 1069 00:40:05,030 --> 00:40:03,200 it is also true that agreements have 1070 00:40:07,670 --> 00:40:05,040 been made and kept secret from your 1071 00:40:09,589 --> 00:40:07,680 people it is also true that in the past 1072 00:40:12,550 --> 00:40:09,599 some of your people have lost their 1073 00:40:13,910 --> 00:40:12,560 lives or have been badly hurt to protect 1074 00:40:16,150 --> 00:40:13,920 this secret 1075 00:40:17,910 --> 00:40:16,160 our hands had no part in this we 1076 00:40:20,630 --> 00:40:17,920 contacted your leaders because your 1077 00:40:21,990 --> 00:40:20,640 planet is in grave trouble your leaders 1078 00:40:24,150 --> 00:40:22,000 said the vast majority of your 1079 00:40:26,630 --> 00:40:24,160 population wasn't ready for anything 1080 00:40:28,870 --> 00:40:26,640 like us yet so we made the agreements 1081 00:40:31,349 --> 00:40:28,880 with your leaders as to when your people 1082 00:40:33,589 --> 00:40:31,359 would be made aware of our presence 1083 00:40:34,950 --> 00:40:33,599 this part of the agreement has not at 1084 00:40:37,510 --> 00:40:34,960 all been kept 1085 00:40:39,349 --> 00:40:37,520 it was also agreed that in the meantime 1086 00:40:42,150 --> 00:40:39,359 steps will be taken to correct the 1087 00:40:44,870 --> 00:40:42,160 environmental condition of your planet 1088 00:40:47,349 --> 00:40:44,880 with our advice and technology 1089 00:40:50,309 --> 00:40:47,359 we say advice because we respect the 1090 00:40:52,470 --> 00:40:50,319 fact that this is your planet not ours 1091 00:40:54,950 --> 00:40:52,480 they also broke this agreement 1092 00:40:57,109 --> 00:40:54,960 unquote 1093 00:40:59,589 --> 00:40:57,119 and here again we're reminded of this 1094 00:41:01,750 --> 00:40:59,599 symbiotic kind of relationship yes 1095 00:41:03,910 --> 00:41:01,760 perhaps they want things from us our 1096 00:41:06,550 --> 00:41:03,920 biological material apparently 1097 00:41:08,069 --> 00:41:06,560 but they also want to help us some 1098 00:41:10,150 --> 00:41:08,079 people might look at that like they're 1099 00:41:12,390 --> 00:41:10,160 just enabling a kind of 1100 00:41:14,069 --> 00:41:12,400 cattle that they own but i think it's 1101 00:41:15,030 --> 00:41:14,079 more than that it's more complicated 1102 00:41:17,030 --> 00:41:15,040 than that 1103 00:41:18,870 --> 00:41:17,040 they clearly want to help human beings 1104 00:41:21,270 --> 00:41:18,880 transcend their current level of 1105 00:41:23,510 --> 00:41:21,280 consciousness they're very aware for 1106 00:41:25,349 --> 00:41:23,520 instance that we are doing grave damage 1107 00:41:27,589 --> 00:41:25,359 to our planet 1108 00:41:29,190 --> 00:41:27,599 and of course this is a theme that comes 1109 00:41:32,390 --> 00:41:29,200 up repeatedly 1110 00:41:34,230 --> 00:41:32,400 in the ufo phenomenon literature 1111 00:41:36,790 --> 00:41:34,240 human beings that are abducted or 1112 00:41:39,589 --> 00:41:36,800 contacted whatever words you prefer are 1113 00:41:42,309 --> 00:41:39,599 shown apocalyptic images are shown the 1114 00:41:44,069 --> 00:41:42,319 world on fire that kind of thing 1115 00:41:46,710 --> 00:41:44,079 in fact jim goes on to say that there 1116 00:41:48,470 --> 00:41:46,720 are actually implants put into human 1117 00:41:51,030 --> 00:41:48,480 beings while they are watching these 1118 00:41:53,829 --> 00:41:51,040 projections of these apocalyptic images 1119 00:41:56,630 --> 00:41:53,839 which only increase the emotional 1120 00:41:59,270 --> 00:41:56,640 turmoil and urgency people feel when 1121 00:42:01,910 --> 00:41:59,280 they see these scenes 1122 00:42:04,710 --> 00:42:01,920 it seems like some sort of subconscious 1123 00:42:05,589 --> 00:42:04,720 subliminal kind of messaging is taking 1124 00:42:08,230 --> 00:42:05,599 place 1125 00:42:11,109 --> 00:42:08,240 perhaps with the hopes that a large 1126 00:42:14,230 --> 00:42:11,119 group of human beings will really become 1127 00:42:16,630 --> 00:42:14,240 enabled and equipped to start teaching 1128 00:42:18,790 --> 00:42:16,640 others about the grave damage we are 1129 00:42:20,550 --> 00:42:18,800 doing to the planet 1130 00:42:23,030 --> 00:42:20,560 now also according to that section of 1131 00:42:25,190 --> 00:42:23,040 the book i just read from at some point 1132 00:42:28,390 --> 00:42:25,200 these others supposedly contacted our 1133 00:42:30,870 --> 00:42:28,400 governments and wanted a mass disclosure 1134 00:42:33,510 --> 00:42:30,880 to take place where their presence would 1135 00:42:35,349 --> 00:42:33,520 be made known to all of us and that they 1136 00:42:37,190 --> 00:42:35,359 would then help us to deal with the 1137 00:42:38,390 --> 00:42:37,200 maladies we were facing 1138 00:42:40,150 --> 00:42:38,400 not the least of which was the 1139 00:42:42,790 --> 00:42:40,160 environmental damage we were doing to 1140 00:42:47,109 --> 00:42:44,950 and of course also according to these 1141 00:42:48,790 --> 00:42:47,119 others the governments of the world did 1142 00:42:50,870 --> 00:42:48,800 not honor agreements that were 1143 00:42:52,790 --> 00:42:50,880 apparently made 1144 00:42:54,790 --> 00:42:52,800 whether this actually happened is hard 1145 00:42:56,630 --> 00:42:54,800 to tell for sure it seems like that 1146 00:42:59,030 --> 00:42:56,640 would be quite a secret to keep under 1147 00:43:01,670 --> 00:42:59,040 wraps for this long even though we have 1148 00:43:04,550 --> 00:43:01,680 heard hints here and there 1149 00:43:06,950 --> 00:43:04,560 that said if that did happen perhaps 1150 00:43:09,510 --> 00:43:06,960 that's why these others changed their 1151 00:43:12,230 --> 00:43:09,520 approach and decided more of a mass 1152 00:43:15,109 --> 00:43:12,240 subversive kind of contact where a kind 1153 00:43:17,589 --> 00:43:15,119 of subliminal subconscious kind of 1154 00:43:19,829 --> 00:43:17,599 entraining goes on amongst perhaps 1155 00:43:23,990 --> 00:43:19,839 millions of human beings in order to 1156 00:43:26,550 --> 00:43:24,000 facilitate a change that way 1157 00:43:28,390 --> 00:43:26,560 and on that note we've come to the close 1158 00:43:30,390 --> 00:43:28,400 of another edition of the point of 1159 00:43:32,790 --> 00:43:30,400 convergence podcast 1160 00:43:34,870 --> 00:43:32,800 as always let's keep this conversation 1161 00:43:37,030 --> 00:43:34,880 going and growing 1162 00:43:38,870 --> 00:43:37,040 but until next time friends from deep 1163 00:43:42,230 --> 00:43:38,880 within the blue ridge mountains of north